In this interview, biblical counselor Chris Hurley shares his story and encourages us that victory over life dominating sins is possible. We discuss with him how we can put to death our sinful nature so we can begin to walk in the Spirit and enjoy the abundant life He has for us.  (From Podcast Episode #438 - |Victory| Emptied of Self, Filled with Power.)

Nate: I'd like to read something that Pastor Steve wrote. "Many sex addicts plead with God for help to overcome their sexual addiction, but resist Him when He begins to require change in other areas of their lives. They want Him to come into their inner world, and clean out the red light district, but they leave the movie houses, gambling halls and comedy clubs." Was this true for you Chris, in your own life, when you were coming out of sexual sin? That you just wanted one area of your life cleaned up, and you wanted God to leave the rest alone?

Chris: I would have to say yes. However, I also knew having had decades of sin in my past that there was a lot more to do. I'd already destroyed my family because of my sin, my rage. I would say the issue that has trailed me, and even Pastor Ed to this day has said that I'll have to deal with it for the rest of my life, is rebellion. Because I rebelled against every authority in my life. My parents, obviously, but also my teachers, my coaches, my employers and my spiritual authorities, for sure.

Nate: It's something you've been doing for a long time.

Chris: A very, very long time. When I looked into the word rebellion in the ESV translation, which is the version I mostly read, I saw that there were only sixteen verses that dealt with this word. But every time it was a hugely severe rebuke. I think of the rebellion of Korah in the Old Testament, when they stood and opposed Moses. What did God do? He opened the ground and the earth swallowed up their families, their possessions and every single thing. So, when I came to PLM sexual sin was the obvious, blatant, outward and rebellious aspect of my life, but inwardly there was a heart that was so full of know it all pride and self-exalting pride. That was the core issue in my life. It allowed me to say, "Yeah, I don't have to obey anybody. Least of all God."

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Nate: So, when that sin became clear it sounds like you were thinking, “Okay, yes, I understand the sexual sin, but what about this huge sin of rebellion that's lying underneath? This needs to get dealt with.” How did you begin to walk in the Spirit in that area?

Chris: That's a good question. It was a struggle. I had to get to a point where I literally walked down to the cross one day and said, "Okay, Lord I've been in church for twenty years as a Pharisee. I thought I knew you, but it's very clear, I've never known you as Lord of my life." So I said, "I'm going to throw out the last twenty years, and I'm going to start fresh with you today, and I pray you'll start fresh with me. Make me obedient. Because I have never known obedience in my life!"

Coming here, the hardest thing for me to do was to hear my counselor talking to me. He loved me and wanted to see change in my life, but I had to trust him that he knew the Word of God much better than I did. I mean, he was a theologian, he knew the word of God much better. I had to trust that he was giving me right information, and that he himself was living a godly life. So, I trusted in him, and I started to trust in the Word of God.  Slowly, over a period of six or seven months, I started rebelling less and less. That took a period of months. And I had to surrender. I would go to the bottom of the prayer trail and cry and bawl my eyes out before God, and He started to show me my sin. My sin became worse and it worse before my eyes, and how could I resist such a great salvation?

Nate: This is good what you're saying, because the thing that I was hoping also to bring out in this interview is that we're not promoting a formula when it comes to walking in the Spirit. It's not a, "just do this, and then do this, and then do this." You were talking about a process of, of it sounds to me like it was a daily and hourly surrendering of your will. You thought, "I know that I have been wrong in the past, even though I've thought I've been right. I got to lay that down all day, everyday." And there’s all kinds of failures and missteps included in the whole process of learning to walk in the Spirit. Can you maybe explain a little bit about what it was like internally as you were going through this process? Well, you actually started to talk about it.

Chris: Well yeah, I saw it enacted just in my relationships in the program. I looked at the younger guys at first and thought, you know, they don't know anything. They're twenty-five years old.

Nate: Yeah, they were born yesterday!

Chris: Yeah exactly, I mean they haven't experienced... I've experienced everything, right? No, and what I realize God had to build into me one important thing, one of the major aspects of a Christian life that I had never done which was mercy. Everything in my life had been about me. So, I just started going to men and saying, "Hey, can I pray for you?" And I saw that the more I did that, the more I stopped thinking about my needs and my problems. It was so much easier to submit to God's word and to watch it actually work in the lives of other men. That process of doing mercy changed my heart.

Nate: In that first couple of months when you realized this area of rebellion, and then you were thinking, "Okay, I've got to stop walking in the flesh, I've got to begin to learn to walk in the Spirit." Was it discouraging at the beginning? When you would see setbacks, or when you’d realize how strong and deep this sin really was.

Chris: Yes. Definitely at first. The first few months were very hard because my sin became very exposed in my heart. God was showing me the wickedness that had been in me. So there was a huge issue of asking Him to forgive me, and repenting. Constant repentance. I’d think to myself, "Oh, look at this, I did that! Oh my goodness look at how I treated this person." And it was a constant video of all my past sins. And seeing it I would get angry. I would rail against God. I would go to the farthest part of the prayer trail and scream at Him. "Why am I here? Why have you... Why do I have to go through this?" Right? But I had one verse that really helped me. James is great book for anyone struggling with the flesh. James 1:21 says, "put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness, and receive with meekness"—which is a humbling—"the implanted Word, which is able to save your souls." I had to believe that He didn't bring me here just to mock me. Or to crush me. His point was to save me from self. It took a long time for God to do this for me, but He was very gentle. He didn't crush me all at once, He just kept pointing out, "Hey, you need to repent to this person. Hey, you need to stop doing this behavior, don't Lord it over others."

Nate: The thing that's sticking out to me is just how much God wants us to be like Jesus in every area of our lives. He's not looking at what we're looking at. We say, "Oh Lord, come and help me with this thing." He's like a good father, He doesn't just see the one thing, He sees the whole picture. He says, "I do want to help you and I am going to help you, but I have to help you in the way I know is right. Not in the way you think is right."

Chris: Right. We have a teaching that's titled When Mercy Seems Cruel. I look back and see that everything God did through my program was mercy. Everything was for my good. Psalm 119 says, "You are good and you do good." And every time He puts a test before us, it’s so that we can see, "Am I walking in the Spirit or am I walking in the flesh?" Paul talks a lot about circumcision. And He says, "A Jew is not one who is circumcised outwardly. But it's a circumcision of the heart" (Romans 2:28-29). And He is always after our hearts. Jesus came to change our hearts and our minds. That cross that stands before us, at all times is to transform us and take our heart of stone and turn it into a heart of flesh. In that He can mold us and He can make us. I had almost 6 decades of unrighteousness that He had to cleanse out of me. And to think, was it hopeless? Oh, it looked hopeless. It looked impossible! But He's just a faithful giver. He’s constantly giving mercy to those who don't deserve it. Like me.

Nate: Yeah, amen. I'm glad about what you said, that it seemed impossible. It looked impossible. And you talked about being broken. You know in our minds we often think, well if God breaks me, I'm going to be messed up and miserable. I'm not going to be able to function. But it's obvious from listening to you speak that that's not right. The breaking makes us whole.

Chris: Yes. In the breaking, when we are humble, and when we are that empty clay vessel that we talk about, God comes in with His Spirit, fills us and makes us useful for His Kingdom. We no longer worry about self. Paul said, "Forgetting what was behind, but striving to what lies ahead" (Philippians 3:13). His focus was to work for Christ, if by any means, he may attain the resurrection. Yes, that's a future fulfillment for sure. But it says He came to give us life and life abundant. And if we think about the decimation that our sin has caused, why would we not want this newness of life that the Spirit brings into us? Why would we want anything other than this bountiful joy, this inexpressible joy? And can I say, honestly that it's all the time? No. Because I'm in the flesh. And Paul says, we will never be perfected in this flesh. We will constantly see our sin and our struggles brought before our eyes. But there is victory.

We walk in the Spirit. We do not give into the desires of the flesh. So, it's a conscious choice. And really for me Nate it came down to the point where, looking at the struggle and all the hurt and the pain that was being dredged up, I had to determine in my heart, is Jesus Christ worth this? Is He enough? Is He sufficient for me or am I going to just want to go back to watching pro football, looking at porn, having my big self-life and riding horses? No. Because all that as we look to the cross, it becomes so much less important. And as Paul has said, how could we not glorify God in our bodies, when we’ve seen how much we’ve been forgiven? My sin overwhelms me. It overwhelms me! I'm thankful there's repentance. It is one of the greatest joys of my life. I don't know how I could survive now, knowing the wretchedness that is within me, and being able to go to a brother and to say, "I've wronged you, I repent, please forgive," and then gain forgiveness. Which is exactly what God has done when he says, "I have covered all of your sins. You will be my people, and I will be your God" (Hebrews 8:10,12). And "Blessed is the man whose sins are covered, whose transgressions the Lord will not remember" (Psalm 32:1).

Nate: Amen, Amen. Alright, well thanks so much for coming in, that was good.

Chris: Thank you, it was a pleasure being here.

There is a real pathway into the victorious Christian life. The foundation of such a life is total dependence on the God who is willing to live his powerful life through us. Now it’s time to build on this foundation. What kind of life is He looking to live out in me? In this episode we look at one of His most essential characteristics: mercy. What is needed for each of us is for God to give a revelation of His heart of mercy, and that by it He may establish us in a life of victory.

In this session of our series, Exposing the Root of All Sin, we take a look at what may be the most subtle form of pride: self-protective pride. It is subtle because this form of pride typically manifests itself in those who are more shy, quiet, sensitive and unassuming, but most of us tend to see those traits as signs of a naturally humble person. But while these individuals can appear outwardly humble, inwardly they may be full of prideful thoughts and attitudes and be completely preoccupied with themselves.

Joining us today is Jessie Meldrum, who has spent years ministering to women around the country. She talks about this common, yet hidden form of pride, out of her years of experience and from her own testimony.

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In this interview with Rose Colon, we discuss how we can come to know God intimately in our daily life to enjoy a victorious Christian life.

Mike: Rose Colon has joined me in the studio. Rose is the director of Women's Counseling. Rose, it's good to see you again.

Rose: It's good to be here Mike.

Mike: Rose, as we continue our discussions in Living in Victory, today we want to talk about something that ought to be a reality to all of us as Christians. And what we're talking about is seeking, knowing and loving God. It seeks obvious that we ought to know God, but when you really start think about it, it begs the question, "How can we know God?"

Rose: Some of the ways that we can come into a knowledge of God is first by praying. I think about Paul. Paul shared in Philippians 3, verse 10: "that I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death." You see that the desire of Paul’s heart was to know God. We can pray and ask God for that desire to really come into a knowledge of Him. We can be like the saints of old who came into a great knowledge of who their God was, and of what His heart is for people, what His heart is for the world.

Mike: I think of Brother Lawrence when you talk about saints of old. For those who may not know who Brother Lawrence is, talk a little bit about His life, and what we learn from His life.

Rose: Brother Lawrence is really a wonderful example. This is a man that learned to look for God wherever he was. He worked in a kitchen, and he learned to see God in everything that he did throughout the day. He would turn to God in his heart, and he would just worship the Lord, or thank the Lord, or just acknowledge Him in his heart throughout the day. He looked for ways that he could practice being in the presence of God. Whether through worship, through repentance, having a grateful heart, or seeing a bird on the windowsill when he was washing dishes and just thanking the Lord for creation, and how He provides for the birds. You know, he was just in that mindset. To Brother Lawrence God was everywhere, and God was there in Him. He could turn to Him at any time if He wanted to in His heart.

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Mike: Yeah, he wrote “The Practice of the Presence of God.” It's not a how to book, but I'd encourage our listeners to read it if they haven’t. It's a little booklet, it doesn't take long to read through it.

Rose: Yes, it's a great book.

Mike: But it isn't a how to book. It's his experience of how he came to know God in his day-to-day life. As we're talking about that, I'm thinking about where we are in our time of human history now. It seems like the greatest tool that the enemy uses against us, is just to distract us from the things of God. He doesn't want us to know God.

Rose: He distracts us with so many things. The cares of the day or with what's going on in the world. Our mind sometimes is bombarded with so many thoughts that you can't find God anywhere. You just see it's a fight. It's a battle to maintain the reality that God is with me. God is present.

Mike: And we have to do practical things in our lives. One thing I’ve done is I’ve bemoaned this fact to the Lord, "I'm not close to you Lord, I just don't feel like I know you very well." I can moan about that all day long, but if I don't take practical action in my life to the extent that we can get rid of those things that come between me and knowing the Lord, then I'm not going to see any improvement in that area.

Rose: Right, we have to do our part. We can cry out to the Lord, and we can make choices throughout the day about what to feed our spirit man with. For example, we can listen to praise and worship. We can get into the word of God and meditate on who God is and His faithfulness. Or we can recount His faithfulness in our lives. I've spoken before about a gratitude book. It means just writing out things that you're thankful for, how God has provided and met your need, or just intervened in some way. These are just little things we can do that help us to get us focused on God and the things of God.

Mike: I know one of my great struggles over the years has been at the end of many of my days, well, I'm just tired. It's so much easier for so many, unfortunately, to go home and just sit in front of a TV. We even justify that. "Well, I'm tired and I just what to relax," we say. But we need to think about not only what are we allowing to go into us by doing that, but that we're missing an opportunity to spend time with the Lord and get to know Him.

Rose: Yes. I think about the Lord, how He must feel. Knowing that He created us to have that intimacy and fellowship with Him, and how He must feel to see us choosing other things. And meanwhile His heart is yearning to be with us, alone with us, somewhere intimate with us! Yet we look to other things, because we think, "Oh, this is what I need right now. I just need to relax, or kick back or whatever."

Mike: Well, you really are leading us into what we want to talk about next. I'll present it this way in a question. As we get to know God, as we spend time in the Word of God, we learn about who He is, how He is, and how He interacts with His people. You used the word intimate. How does that knowledge become an intimate union with Him?

Rose: One of the things I think we need to realize comes from John 17. When Jesus prayed, He prayed that we would be one as He and the Father are one. Also that we would be in the reality that He is in us, and we are in Him. It's kind of like the intimate union between a husband and wife. That oneness, where there's one will, one passion, one desire.

Mike: At least that's what it's supposed to be.

Rose: That's what it's supposed to be right, exactly. It's a picture of our relationship with the Lord, how God wants to be with us. He wants to be as intimate with us as a married couple are where we're so one with Him. I think of when Jesus was here, He said, "I only think the thoughts that my father wants me to think. I only do what my Father wants me to do. I only say what my father wants me to say" (John 12:49, John 5:19). And that's the kind on union, the kind of intimacy, the kind of knowing that God wants us to have.

Mike: Oh, how I long for that.

Rose: Me too.

Mike: If He would just zap us and make it happen.

Rose: I know, but it seems like the zap's not coming Mike.

Mike: No, but one day I believe it is. We're going to get zapped one day.

Rose: Yeah, we've just got to hold on until then.

Mike: But this doesn't come by just going to church on Sunday or Wednesday.

Rose: No, no.

Mike: If that's our Christian life, we are going to sorely miss this kind of intimacy with the Lord.

Rose: Yes, there's so much more. I mean, I love where I live. Where I live, we have about 10 or 11 acres. And we have a small house on the property, there’s about three acres that are cleared. But I love when the weather gets really nice because we have a deck in the back, and it’s nothing but trees.

Mike: It is beautiful.

Rose: I just love to sit there and get quiet before the Lord whenever I can. Especially when I get restless or busy or maybe I was stressed out all day. That’s a time where I can go and a place where I can go, where it’s just me and the Lord. I think about my husband; he has a spot down in the woods where it’s just Him and the Lord. That’s his place to go. And you need that! I don’t know how you can function from going to church on Sunday, and then getting a fill up on Wednesday, when there’s so many things we go through and pressures throughout the week! We can’t survive or find God or be with God by just giving Him those two days in the week.  We should be looking for times throughout the day where we can steal away to be with Him. Alone with Him.

Mike: Yeah, and I think part of the problem is our perspective on that. As you just said, we look at it too often as, “how do I get through the week?” We live for the weekend in America. As opposed to, my purpose for being on this earth is to know Him, have a relationship with Him, and share that wonderful relationship with others. That’s the way we ought to be viewing our lives, but we don’t see it that way. That’s why we don’t put the effort that we ought to into this relationship with Him.

Rose: Right.

Mike: Unfortunately, Rose, that’s all the time we have for today, we’ll have to finish this up next week. Thanks so much for talking to us about seeking, knowing and loving God.

Rose: You’re welcome Mike.

When we realize just how high God’s expectations are for us, and when we see how weak we are, there can be a strong temptation to just give up. We think, maybe overcoming sexual sin is impossible. But this isn’t true! God knows that we can’t be free from sin by our own strength, that we can’t live a holy live without his power. But He’s not asking us to do it on our own. He has promised a marvelous gift that empowers us to live in victory. On this episode we’ll talk about the incredible gift of the Holy Spirit. One vital aspect of being filled with the Holy Spirit that we’ll discuss is what it means to crucify our flesh nature.

In this interview with Rose Colon we discuss the important step of seeing our need. When we see our need for Jesus and His redeeming work in our lives, we’ll come to Him and be set free.

Mike: Rose Colon has joined me in the studio. Rose is the Director of Women's Counseling here at Pure Life Ministries. Rose it's great to see you, thanks for coming in.

Rose: It's good to be here Mike.

Mike: Rose as we continue our discussions in Living in Victory, we want to tackle this subject today: seeing your need. You know we have such a superficial understanding of our need. As new Christians, sometimes we think, “I'm a sinner, basically.” I lied once, or stole a candy bar, or something. So obviously I'm a sinner and I have a need for Jesus. But my goodness, how much deeper our need is!

Rose: It's a lot deeper than that. That's one thing I've had to come to grips with in my own life.

Mike: Yes. All of us do. You know the great thing about being here at Pure Life Ministries, is that the men who come to us are in such tremendous need.

Rose: Yes, they are, they're aware of their need. Because they have failed God so much by their sin, as well as their family if they’re married, that they're so aware of how needy they are. Most of them come here just really broken over what they're like inside. And they realize that they need more of the Lord dwelling, ruling, and reigning in their hearts. It's a blessing to be around men that are like that.

Mike: I know in our worship services, you hear the men worshipping, and you just hear that tremendous cry in most of their hearts as they're worshipping the Lord.

Rose: Yeah, I'm blessed when I hear them singing about the blood of Jesus Christ, because they know it's real. What’s coming from their hearts is the reality that, “I need His blood, and I need His blood to wash me clean.” Not only for my sin, but minute by minute, moment by moment, it's just the reality.

Mike: What are some of the ways that the blood of Jesus impacts their lives?

Rose: When they see just how unclean their inside world and their thinking is, I believe as they get a sight of the cross and what Jesus did there, a heart of gratitude wells up within them. In that you end up loving the One who died for you, who shed His blood. I believe that, men come into a greater reality, and women too when they come here for a visit, the wives as well, that they just have a greater appreciation for what Jesus did on the cross. Because it becomes very evident that without Him, there's no hope for me.

Mike: Yes. It really creates a desperation, doesn't it?

Rose: Yeah. What happens is a lot of the men that come here realize, "I can't fix myself." I've tried to fix myself, but I can't. So they're at their wits end and they realize, "I need someone greater than myself to help me to change."

Mike: Sure. You mentioned the women. We certainly don't want to leave them out, because you see this same thing occurring in the lives of the women who go through our Overcomers at Home Program.

Rose: Yes. It's a blessing to work with them over the phone, because some of them don't get to visit here. Yet you see the Lord revealing Himself to them in the same way through the studies and through the CD's they listen to. It's just a blessing to see the Holy Spirit working in their hearts as well, making the cross real to them too.

Mike: Amen. Well Rose, I know as the Director of Women's Counseling here, you can't take those women—and certainly the men counseling here can't take those men—any  further than they've gone themselves. Talk to us a little bit about how God used Jeff's sin to help you to see your own need for God.

Rose: Well, I can think back to what you just opened with earlier. When I came to the Lord, I was aware that I was a sinner. But what I didn't realize is how much I needed Jesus inside to change my heart. When Jeff's sin came to the light and he went to Pure Life, and I got involved with the counseling at Pure Life, I started seeing how desperately I needed Jesus in my heart, to change my heart. Because I saw that my heart was just as wicked as His. I still had pride and selfishness issues, judging others, loving self. There were so many hard issues in my heart that I wasn't aware of, until Jeff's sin came into the light and God started showing me what I'm like inside.

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Mike: We sometimes say to the men that, God used their sexual sin as an excuse to bring them here.  It's just as true that sometimes God uses the sin of the husband to point out the need for the wife.

Rose: Sure, because I didn't realize how desperate my need was either. I just saw when my husband was in this sin, that he had this great need. But God started pointing the mirror back on me and saying, "your need is just as great, if not greater."

Mike: You know Rose, I think that sometimes our response to God showing us our need is really for us to run away from God. We almost feel like, "Well, then God doesn't really love me, because look, He’s just showing me how bad I am." But that's not the response He desires from us, is it?

Rose: No, He doesn't. What I've seen is when the Lord is showing me something about myself in my heart, I realize, "Lord I have nobody else to turn to but you! If I want to run from you, that's foolish because self is still there. Wherever I go, or if I try to change my surroundings, the problem is in me!" Self is still there. In that awareness I realize, Lord you're the only one who can really help me. And you're the one I really need.

Mike: We talk a lot about mercy here. And one of the aspects about Mercy is that it meets every need. In that, of course, we learn about Jesus. He wants to meet our every need. So, He's showing us our need. He wants us to see our need, so that we will come to Him and He can meet it.

Rose: Right. I think where I've seen people get tripped up in counseling, is when they start to see heart. It's difficult when God shows them attitudes of their heart that aren't right, especially as they go through the bible study The Walk of Repentance. I have one lady that I was counseling yesterday who had mentioned, "It's all negative. You know I'm waiting for God to love on me, it's all just negative." So I said to her, "No, you're not seeing it right," And I read to her Hebrews 12 where it talks about how "He disciplines those He loves" (Hebrews 12:6).  And I said, "He's loving all over you! It just doesn't feel like it, but He's loving all over you right now." That's the thing we must realize.

It's right for Him to correct things that are not right in our heart. Not only in our relationship towards Him, but towards our neighbor too. So, the proof of our adoption as sons and daughters of God is His discipline, because a father disciplines his children. Not to beat them over the head, but because He wants them to be free. Free to be able to love, and not have all these hang-ups, and all the stuff that keeps them bound up inside. He wants to set us free.

Mike: He wants to set us free from the issues of our heart that aren't right. But we can't deal with them if we don't know what they are.

Rose: Right, and we don't acknowledge them. We just keep sweeping them under the rug and pretending, “No that's not true. No, I'm not like that.” He just wants us to say, "Yeah that's me, through and through. I know I need to repent, and my hope is Jesus. I'm going to trust that as I submit myself to Him, to do His words, in whatever He's telling me to do in that time, whether it's through my leaders, through the word of God or the Holy Spirit, He's going to change me.  

Mike: Yeah, amen. Rose Colon, thanks so much for talking to us about seeing your need.

Rose: Okay Mike.

If you want to live in victory over sin, you must see that you are helpless to save yourself. However, the culture and prosperity of our day has made it possible to ignore our helplessness and allow us to live life without acknowledging God. But this self-dependence leaves us blind to our true spiritual condition, and separated from the God who yearns to meet our every need. In this week’s show, we discuss this relationship between seeing our need and gaining victory over sexual sin with three counselors from the Pure Life Ministries Residential Program.

Every single person, regardless of their age or personality type, is vulnerable to the sin of pride. So in these next four episodes, we’re going to look at some of the most common expressions of pride. In this episode we start with the type of pride found in those who want to be at the top and in the center.

Joining us is Dustin Renz, pastor and founder of Make Way Ministries. Not only does he share what he has learned from his years of ministry experience, but also from his own personal battles with this kind of pride.

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Many Christians have looked to psychology and behavior modification to overcome sexual addiction. In this interview, Steve Gallagher points to the impossibility of overcoming sin through human effort and shows us the need for a transformed heart.

Mike: Steve, we want to deal today with a question which we often hear when we are out on the road speaking. It has to do with the book, Every Man's Battle by Steve Arterburn as well as the workshops that are based on that material. The question is this, how does that material compare with what we are doing here at Pure Life Ministries, in our Residential Program, Overcomers at Home Program, and in our Call to Purity weekends?

Steve: First of all, comparing the two really is a matter of apples and oranges. Steve Arterburn did a great service for the American church, writing Every Man's Battle, in that it really brought sexual lust to the forefront, along with Promise Keepers. Those two things really helped to bring the issue of just the regular guys out there dealing with the sexualized culture and what they face. I appreciate it for that. But we've got to remember that Steve Arterburn's a psychologist, and his answers are largely based upon the concept of behavioral modification. Our approach here at Pure Life is really, completely different. We see sexual sin and lust as a spiritual issue primarily. And if that's the case, what must happen for the person is a real change of heart. Something must transpire within their heart to set them on a new course.

Mike: I know it's very often true Steve, that the men who come to us, and most of them are men that have been involved with sexual sin for years, that they have tried changing their behavior but then find themselves slipping back into sin because real heart change didn't occur.

Steve: Right, as a minister my greatest concern is that a person's heart is where it needs to be with God. I'm not so much concerned about the outward actions nearly as much as I'm concerned about what's going on in their heart.

Mike: We certainly live in a very sexualized world. The men that are in the church today are constantly going to be bombarded by temptation and sexual images. They really do need to know how to deal with that at the heart level.

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Steve: Yes, I feel like God can do such a work inside a man, that he can at least more effectively handle the kind of imagery that he's going to face in this culture with a changed heart, with a renewed spirit, a passion for God and a passion to live a holy life. When those things are in place inside Him and then he gets confronted by images, it's not a matter of snapping a rubber band or something. It's a matter of the desires of his heart, and what is really the driving passions of his heart.

Mike: It's so often that if we approach this from the wrong perspective, when we're looking at the issue of sexual sin and of temptation, it can become a list of do’s and don'ts, as opposed to getting those things out of my life that get in the way of my relationship with God.

Steve: The bottom line I can say is this Mike, you cannot win the battle with the flesh by the flesh. We need something outside of ourselves to win this battle. If we are left to our own devices, our own determination, we're in trouble. Because our flesh nature, which is very much part of us, desires sin and will always desire sin. We need God's work inside of us and His Spirit working within us, to help us live a life of victory.

Mike: Amen. Steve Gallagher, thanks so much.

Steve: Great to be here with you Mike.

Understanding the heart of God is critical for a life of victory. And the revelation of His will for us in Scripture is a love that calls us out of the world and out of sin and bondage to live in fellowship with Him. When we see this desire, this jealous love for us, it should compel us to reach out for a deeper, more intimate relationship with Him. And that, is the beginning of really living in victory.

In this message given by Pastor Ed Buch in Pure Life’s chapel, he exhorts us to be honest in confessing our sins to God and if necessary to people, so that truth can be in our hearts and we can enjoy unhindered fellowship with God. (from our Podcast Episode #405 - World of Lies: The Painful Fight for Truth)

As we were singing the song Here I Am to Worship a minute ago, a verse came to mind out of John 4. "But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24).

If you want to turn with me, I'm actually over in Acts, the end of chapter 4 and into chapter 5. "Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. Nor was there anyone among them who lacked, for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed them to each as anyone had need. And Joses, who was also named Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated Son of Encouragement), a Levite of the country of Cyprus, having land, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet" (Acts 4:32-37).

Now here's the contrast. "But a certain man named Ananias, with Saphira his wife, sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said 'Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.' Then Ananias, hearing those words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him. Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. And Peter answered her, 'Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?' She said 'Yes, for so much.' Then Peter said to her. ‘How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.' Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things" (Acts 5:10-11).

As I was pondering all of this before the Lord this morning, I felt very convicted myself. So even sharing this is hard in many ways. But I could see almost like this continuum of God's will being over here, while my will is over there. And instead of just letting go of my own will and coming over here and saying God's will should prevail, I spend a lot of time trying to do two things. One is trying to redefine God's will into something less than it is. God has a standard of holiness. Glenn Meldrum has preached about that in his first message. Pastor Steve has written a book, "Intoxicated with Babylon," which is essentially about that. God has got a standard of holiness that He expects of us. We spend far too much time trying to take issue with that, and we redefine it into something less than it is so that we can excuse ourselves from it.

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The other thing that I spend a lot of time doing is projecting my holiness, my personal holiness, as something higher, or maybe I should say deeper than it is. Essentially, that's lying. If I'm presenting something as different than it is, that's a lie. You know there are different ways to even do that. There are people who are just living in blatant sin sometimes. They're just blatantly breaking God's commands or the rules of this program, and if you confront them about it, they'll just lie to your face. If you say to them, "Did you sell the land for so much?" they’re response is, "Yes, that's how much we sold it for, I gave it all to you." But there's no truth in that statement. It's a lie, a bald-faced lie right at the outset. And there are people like that, but more so I suspect there are those of us who don't tell everything to others that they really ought to know about us personally, or about a situation. We obscure the truth by withholding it.

God is after truth in the inward parts. That takes complete disclosure, not a partial disclosure. I've seen this. For some guys you have to ask him very specific questions to get anything out of him. You can't just say "How are you doing," or "How's your lust problem?" You have to say, “did you do X or did you do Y. If you did, when? How long? How often?” You can't get anything out of him unless you ask the right question that elicits the answer. Even then, it's vague, or brief, with as little information as possible that comes out of Him. That's not truth in the inward parts. Don't kid yourself. If you're playing that game, and that's all it is, it's you who pays the price for that kind of deception. It won't work, it won't help you. Your life won't be a life that God can honor and bless. And you won't have the relationship with God that comes out of truth in the inward parts.

There's another aspect of this that I'd like to say. Husbands, we do this with our wives a lot. We force them to ask us the specific question in order for them to get the information they really should have from us. And we need to stop that. Another thing I've seen is maintaining control of the truth, in a sense, by piecemealing our confessions. We may eventually get around to telling the whole truth, but it comes out in a little nugget here or there, that I never have to face the full consequences of what I did, because I'm controlling the timing and the way that the information is coming out. That again is just defeating, to say the least.  

Then there's the side of us that gives false information. It's not just that we obscure the truth. It's that I can present myself at a level of holiness that's higher and deeper than what I've attained. So, I'm giving false information in that respect. Usually that happens in our setting here when you tell the other person what you think they want to hear from you. You know what you should be saying and able to say, so you go ahead and say that. But inside, if you are honest, you would know that it’s not true. That's not the way I really felt, and that's not what was inside my heart in that situation. The problem with all this lying, is it's all about self. It's just protecting self. It's looking out for self. So, you've got self, and you've got God. You've got to deny self, let self be crucified, and let God reign.

This was such as strong and heavy burden after I read this this morning that I felt compelled to share that. We need truth in our inward parts. God is seeking men who will worship Him in spirit and in truth. It's one thing to know something of His love, but to be able to reciprocate that love there has to be truth in the inward parts. And that's what God wants, a complete relationship with you.

If sexual sin has ruined your life, then “living in victory” might sound like a fairy tale, or even a cruel joke. But living in victory is not only possible, it's God’s will for you. He has made a way for you to lay hold of it. In our new series, we want to help you understand how you truly can live that victorious life, but the first thing we need to do is to make sure we’re all on the same page. So this week, we're going to make sure that we have a right understanding of true Christian victory.