Biblical Forgiveness

In this interview from our archives,  Mike Johnston, Bill Lucas, and Kathy Gallagher show that the healing, restoration, and forgiveness we long for in our lives can only come to us as we see our deep need for God to renew our hearts. (From #385 - The Right Way to Give Up)

Mike: We want to talk today about biblical forgiveness. It is at the core of our faith, and the core of our relationship with the Lord. Bill I want to start with you. One of the things that I know we see in the men coming to us for counseling is that an understanding of our forgiveness requires that we have sight of our need. Talk to us a little bit about that.

Bill: Well, in the area of sexual sin, guys come to us believing they only have just one little problem. They believe that they're going to come in and deal with this problem and get on with life. It's the reality of my life that God opened my eyes to the wickedness of my heart and how it had completely affected my whole life: my living, how I acted, what I did. So, as we expose that to the men, they they realize that their one little problem of sexual sin is actually not their primary need. The greater need is that they have a heart problem which contains every aspect of their life. You can't put one little problem in a system and it not affect the whole system.

Mike: Another way to look at it is that the outward sins that we see are really a manifestation of the heart issues. They're really growing out of the deeper heart issues.

Kathy: I was thinking about how if you don't understand the nature of sin, then it's hard to grasp the nature of your need. I remember when I got saved, all I knew was that there was something so desperately wrong with everything about me and that if I died, I would be separated from God. Somehow I just knew that inside. My need was enormous. Our heart is corrupt through and through, and that's what God is trying to deal with. It's not the symptoms He wants to deal with.

Mike: Let's take it down one more level. You may not have ever dealt with sexual sin. In fact you may see yourself as a pretty good person. We can all compare ourselves to other people. We can always find other people that make us look pretty good on the outside. But, when we're dealing with issues of faith, the truth is in the Word of God and the Word of God says that there is no good thing in me. I can be a church-goer all my life and I can have a gold star on my church attendance. I can be outwardly kind to other people. I can be a very humble person in my personality, but the Bible says it doesn't matter. There's no good thing in us because we've all been terribly corrupted by sin. Whether it's outwardly communicated to others or whether is just secretly in the heart, we are all desperately without hope when it comes to our sin.

Kathy: The corruption that came through the fall belongs to all of mankind. No one has been excluded from it. We are all corrupt inwardly. With forgiveness, God doesn't forgive just specific sins and that's not what our need is. We don't need God to forgive us specifically of certain sins. We need the whole of God's love and forgiveness to come over who we are in our natures. Our nature is corrupt and that's what the issue is.

Bill: I think one of the biggest enemies towards seeing need is being naturally good-natured. The person who is naturally good will struggle tremendously seeing a spiritual need. A lot of people rate themselves by all the good they do.

Kathy: The rich young ruler who was a perfect example of that. He came to Jesus saying, "I've kept all of the commandments, all of my life. What do I need to do to inherit eternal life?" The whole argument was ridiculous to the Lord. Of course, He didn't come across that way, but there's none good.

Mike: Going along with that story. For the sake of argument, Jesus was assuming that what the young man had said was true and with the right motive. You know, Jesus kind of gave the man the benefit of the doubt and said, "Okay. Now go and sell everything you have and give it to the poor." Jesus knew there was a heart issue in this man. He loved his money. It was his security and that man went away sad, because there was a heart issue. And that's really our point today. All of us have heart issues, no matter how outwardly good we may appear to be. Bill, share a little bit with us, because I know this is the first step for a man coming to our program, and for really anyone. Once they've gotten a sight of how desperately needy they are, what happens in their relationship with the Lord and what the Lord is offering them?

<pull-quote>Only Jesus can bring that forgiveness and fulfill our need and as we recognize that, gratitude and hope start to well up inside our hearts.<pull-quote><tweet-link>Tweet This<tweet-link>

Bill: As they see their need, the next step is that gratitude should grow in their lives of what Christ has done. Only Jesus can bring that forgiveness and fulfill our need. As we recognize that, gratitude starts to well up and also hope. It's amazing that when someone's eyes are opened to the greatness of God and what He has done, how He has paid a great price, hope grows that God can really restore you.

Kathy: Humility as well is what I think of. When you get a sight of who you are and what God has done, all you can do is fall down and worship. When you really get a sight of what you are and what you've done and what you deserve, but see how Jesus took the wrath of God for you, it's like wow!

Mike: The forgiveness of God is so tremendous. In fact, when you really get a sight of it, it's almost unbelievable. I don't know how to say it in the right way, I just have trouble getting my arms around the fact that God has really forgiven me!

Kathy: What's even more amazing, words don't do it justice, but He lives in me. He is ever-present and He is now here and near.

Mike: And he couldn't unless he had forgiven us.

Bill: I tell the guys what it says in the Bible, if the Spirit of God is in you, then you have been given a Spirit of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. It's just so tremendous to know that when the truth starts becoming real about our relationship with this awesome God, this mighty God, who has forgiven us, it's humbling. You see how much you lack and how much he has.

Mike: That's a wonderful way to put it. I'm an empty well and He is an overflowing fountain of whatever I need. He's overflowing with it. Well, let's talk about a third thing as we wrap up today. As an individual sees his need and as he gets a sight of God's forgiveness, how does that affect his relationship with other people?

Bill: At first in our Residential Program, we tell the men who come to us what it's like to live around people with a mind focused on giving to others. As you begin to see what God has done for you, what else can you do than to express that towards others? There are many Scriptures to back that up, but I think of Romans 2:1 that gives the impression, if you become a judge, what you're doing is you're looking in a mirror and you're just seeing another person. I tell the guys this: when you get a sight of what you're like and who Christ is, you have compassion for others and allow them room and you learn to forgive others.

Mike: I put it this way, it's very difficult to look down on other people when you're down where you need to be. Because all you can do is look up.

Bill: And God is big, when you're at your right spot, you see God is so much bigger, and it's so real that when we're in our right place, we can really look to God and just trust Him. We can be compassionate towards others. We can forgive others just like the Bible says, and God does truly provide our every need. He is there. He will guide our steps. He does what His Word says.

KG: Only the power of God can give the human heart the ability to say, "I forgive you." But he will give it to you.